Comments on: Coupling Pre-Prints and Post-Publication Peer Review for Fast, Cheap, Fair, and Effective Science Publishing https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/ Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9 By: Stephen Curry https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/#comment-78 Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 http://pl-asapbio.local/coupling-pppr/#comment-78 An interesting and provocative paper and a great starting point. But I have a few questions that I hope will help the discussion dig into some important details. To draw more people in to that discussion, I’ve blogged them here: http://occamstypewriter.org/scurry/2016/02/06/combining-pre-prints-and-post-publication-peer-review-a-new-big-deal/

Interested to see responses either here or on the blog.

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By: Leslie Vosshall https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/#comment-79 Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 http://pl-asapbio.local/coupling-pppr/#comment-79 After we wrote this white paper, Eisen and I decided that “posting” a “pre-print” on a “server” misses the point entirely. We suggest that scientists will be “publishing” their “papers” on a “” that is a place where the sciences lives and post-publication peer review begins. We just don’t know what that “” will be or what it should be called. Lots of ideas being bounced around on Twitter. Feedback desperately needed.

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By: Giorgio Gilestro https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/#comment-80 Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 http://pl-asapbio.local/coupling-pppr/#comment-80 Yes, please! This has always been my favourite solution (Which I humbly proposed in 2013 http://lab.gilest.ro/blog/what-is-wrong-with-scientific-publishing-and-how-to-fix-it/ )

@leslievosshall:disqus , in the open software world the is called a .

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By: Lachlan Coin https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/#comment-81 Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 http://pl-asapbio.local/coupling-pppr/#comment-81 Hi Leslie, great call to action! We have been working on a open preprint peer review system: http://academickarma.org/ . The idea is that an author submits their work to a preprint server, then uses our platform to find an appropriate editor, who invites reviewers. All the reviews are open. We use a non monetary ‘karma’ currency to try to make sure that academics contribute as much as they use from this system.

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By: Helen Pickersgill https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/#comment-82 Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 http://pl-asapbio.local/coupling-pppr/#comment-82 Hi Leslie, I’m going to work back from your point about publishing on a ‘thing’ to briefly present something outside the box. This would be an alternative to our outdated system, that incorporates some of the advantages of preprints, but goes a lot further. I think we can and need to take this further. The main premise is to remove the ‘story-telling’ from science, and go back to the data. I’ll try to be brief – this has been several years on the back burner, takes many other people’s ideas and inputs into account, and been run by a few ‘influential’ people who didn’t make me think it was too insane! It’s great to see the names going to this meeting and I do hope this is the start of a new era. Please forgive this random presentation of essentially why I think we need to go further than preprints.
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The idea:
Completely restructure biological research by eliminating traditional journal publications, enabling rapid, open and online dissemination of peer-reviewed results on one platform, empowering all scientists to work together on global projects.

The current system:
– Scientists required to produce their own ‘complete’ scientific story for publication preferably in a high impact journal before they can get tenure/grants.
Some of the problems:
– There is an every-man-for-himself culture, with many labs competing and keeping results secret, wasting time and resources.
– Science is never complete, but manuscripts in journals are static and mostly independent, and even when conclusions are later disqualified (sometimes by unpublished work) as knowledge inevitably moves on, they remain in the literature.
– The real value of a manuscript is difficult to judge at the time of publication.
– There is enormous pressure to publish in the top journals, which can be counterproductive.
– Papers often go to multiple journals before they are published, causing delays (sometimes years) and leading to repetitive lengthy peer review.
– Journals are competing for the top stories/authors, and have interests that don’t always align with publishing the most solid scientific discoveries.
– A lot of manuscripts are not accessible without journal subscriptions.

The current system actually harms science. We need a new one.

How about this?:
– We build a web-based infrastructure with open access to publish all results (big and small), incorporating a simple, open peer review system, and ways to link related results.
– The new ‘scientific literature’ is dynamic, and grows with time as results can be connected and interpreted to make novel discoveries.
– We incorporate mechanisms to acknowledge individual scientists, also over time, that can be easily mined by governing bodies.
– We develop ways to communicate results to the wider research community and the public.

What we gain:
– Accelerated scientific discoveries as ‘publication’ occurs in real time, bypassing journal-related delays, and making it less likely for two labs to be working for years on the same problem. Instead we have more minds (essentially anyone who is interested) working together on the same existing problems.
– Avoid lengthy review processes that can steer research into artificial journal-style packaging.
– We record all the data (after it is deemed solid by peer review), even that which doesn’t fit in the current system (i.e., an incomplete story or negative data) or whose value may be realized later. This can lead to a new field of science whereby scientists mine the published data to make new discoveries.
– Fidelity of research is easier to ensure as everything is linked on one platform. And sharing work sooner means it can be corroborated or disqualified sooner, avoiding costly diversions. And you still get acknowledged for repeating results, which is critical but mostly absent from the current system as novelty is a key factor for publication.
– We keep the young, smart PIs because they can still get tenure when they are just unable to turn a high-risk promising project into a full scientific story within 5 years.

How do we succeed?:
– We get the top scientists/technologists on side.
– We build a kick-ass platform – this should be possible – we are a community of the brightest minds, and we generate some of the most valuable data.
– We get major funding bodies on side to require publication on the platform. Particularly biomedical funders want good results published fast.
– We charge (preferably a minimum amount) for publication, as do all open access journals. The sheer quantity should hopefully boost revenue (like PLoS ONE). Hosting all the scientific data that is produced should somehow open up revenue options, right?

The new system mimics a cell’s signalling network: it is dynamic and massively interconnected, containing feedback loops for adjustments as technology and knowledge evolves. This also makes it a more natural process, which is what scientific discovery is.

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By: Leslie Vosshall https://asapbio.org/coupling-pppr/#comment-83 Fri, 04 Apr 2025 22:28:47 +0000 http://pl-asapbio.local/coupling-pppr/#comment-83 Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. In reading all the comments here and on Twitter, your blog links, and all the other white papers, I conclude that everyone sees the same problems. And everyone has variations on the same theme to correct those problems. While many scientists express understandable anxiety about change, I have not heard many clamoring to keep the current system in place indefinitely. So what should we do next?. Now we need to stop discussing our agreement to the idea and actually act on it.

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